A topic on Boater Talk getting a lot of buzz

I found this yesterday, and it has grown since then. It is based on Class ratings. I know this dead horse has been beat in the mouth long enough, but it does show the perspective in the south east. They are talking about the Green Narrows. Some say that it is Class V the whole way others say it is Class III/ Class IV moves with Class V consequences. It is brought up that you can not rate purely off of consequences because that is hazardous as well.

I am not down grading the Green although I believe that most of it is easy( Minus Gorilla/ Sunshine) until something goes wrong. I forget who in the Utah kayak community said, "It is all class III until you are off your line or upside down."

Gorilla/ Sunshine are pretty stout Class V drops. Go Left maybe V-, but purely set up. If you set up right at the top you clean the whole thing.

I found it interesting to see good solid green boaters be cool with the Class V rating, while other boaters of the same caliber were against it. The Green Narrows is a wonderful place, and when it has more than 8in on the gauge it is even better.

As far as the Green goes it is well known, epic at times, and has a huge race there every year. To be honest I would rather be running Ogden Narrows above 800, or Eggs around 2100 to 2400. Man I am missing bigger water rivers.

Anyway here is the link.
http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1052293538/

OK, I'm just gonna say it.
What the hell does southeast/Green River narrows class ratings talk have to do with Utah rivers.
You know your my boy and all, Dan, but damn...seriously?

Let me add, every river in every region is different in it's own way. Horse is officially decomposing.

I would say that any river people in Utah talk about wanting to run has some relevance. Also I posted it to show that it is not just an issue in Utah with Class ratings. I personally never ask what class something is anymore. I ask what is the character of the run. It was something i found interesting so i decided to post. I know many people in Utah who have said they want to run the Green, and others in Utah that have. For some traveling and boating go together, and see the view from other areas may broaden our view. Crazy thing about this board sometimes is that something as a simple post gets taken the wrong way and turned into something.

Very few posts on here these days anyway; I was under the impression this was "Open Whitewater Talk".


That was an interesting thread FSM; I didn't know Corran had suggested a rating system (clearly, any rating system will be more accurate/helpful if it mentions the flows, as someone posted in that thread). I am still curious who came up with the AW 5.0, 5.1, 5.2 etc decimal system (was that Doug Ammon's suggestion?).

Bill the thread was mainly for you

I personally feel like anything that edges toward the threshold for class V is going to be very difficult to rate accurately, since there are so many different types of paddling skills required. I feel like FSM has the right idea here - at that point you want information about the type of moves required, the type of river, the hazards, less whether or not it's "5.1" or "5.2".

Of course this same philosophy can be applied to easier water too. What is the real difference between III+ and IV-? In my book, it's less than the difference an individual paddler will feel on the same bit of water on a good day vs. an off day. As a climber I'm fairly used to strict grades (I would argue "over-graded" at times), but I really feel that rivers are so varied at different flows and for different people that grades really are just a general guideline at best and shouldn't be obsessed over too much. I would argue that all the talk about re-grading rivers constitutes, in general, obsessing over grades (no doubt there are some examples where it is pretty justified).