Penny 4 Your Thoughts???

Am in the market for a big water boat, but, seeing as how eddyflower is down, I could use a little info on what "big-water" boats are out there, and their pros/cons. I have a decent (but small) creeker, so this boat will primarily be used on big water... i.e. Murtaugh, SF Payette, Cataract Canyon, etc.

Also, I may be totally wrong here, but I'm thinking a planing hull is preferred on big water. So, if I'm wrong, please telly me why..... and what you would suggest? So far, this is what I've heard... again, please, correct me if I'm wrong, thanks.

Hero - Planing Hull, kind of short, not the fastest or slowest, but real stable, and fairly comfortable... (but I'm not the fondest of their "Happy Seat/Feet")

Villian - Planning Hull, fairly stable, long, not the fastest, not the best boofer, but great for a big creeks... like BCOTB, etc.

Burn - Planing hull, Stable, but has a "ketchy" tail

The New Mamba Creeker - Like mamba but with planing hull (too new/expensive)

Stomper - Real stable, tracks well, fairly fast, but........ too expensive for this guy

What boats have you owned???... any thoughts are GRRRREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

P.S. If you have one to sell, holler here.

THANKS

Dude, there are no cons. Just get a boat and go paddle.

Planning hull is not preferred on big water. The most common boat you see on the north fork is the remix, which is not a planning hull. Some people may say displacement hulls are friendlier and track better, but I personally think it is just a matter of preference. People used to paddle overflows, then they paddled the Y, then the remix and now it will be the stomper. Also, I wouldn't say the villain is a planning hull. I have a villain and I think it is a pretty good boofer. I love it. Nomads are great boats too. Burns are awesome. Everbody wants a stomper these days. I'm not sure about the Hero... it doesn't look like a real boat. Jefe grandes are great. Perception javas are awesome.

I've owned a perception java, a dagger kingpin and a villain. I've ran big water (lochsa, SF payette, murtaugh) with all of them (yes, the kingpin is a playboat and its sometimes more fun to run big water with them) I liked all of them and ran as much as I could with them.

To get you inspired. Here is a big water video. I think all of these boats are displacement hulls. http://vimeo.com/14789616

I havent paddled all of the boats mentioned but i didnt think the hero was anything special.. Ive been running Black Canyon in my Jefe and im about 100 times more impressed with it. The good thing about the jefes is that they're easy to find for a good price, especially now that everyone wants to sell theirs to get the stomper.. Good luck

I have preferred a play boat in most big water I've paddled. I do have a burn and love it. Its like a big floaty playboat, I like how fast and responsive it is. The auto boof button is a great plus.

I prefer a faster displacement boat (Hercules or Cerro) nowdays. I used to use a play boat which was a lot of fun at the time. It's just a matter of what you are used to.

I've loved my Burn

I demoed a SuperHero once for a Self-Support big water Selway / Lochsa trip. I loved it, too.

Not sure if you need a "creeker" and a big water boat, like a burn as well... seems like you can combine the two... but that's up to you. For runs like the Murtaugh/payettes I also prefer my playboat, but its a 4Fun... so more of a riverrunner/play boat.
Cheers

This conversation is interesting. For real creeking I am a fan of full displacement. I like to boof. For most big water(up to IV/IV+), I am a fan of the EZ style boats which include the Funs(I like to dick around and dilly dally). Minus my early runs in the Y, I have never run anything but the Mega Rocker on stout creeks. my issue wasn't the running but the resurfacing(as I am huge). From my perspective, there is more value in learning a boat, and knowing the boat, than there is in paddling the next hottest thing. As with Cristian's statement, I have run the fleet down most runs that I have done. Every boat has it's place, but most choices are based on personal comfort level. Good luck finding your zen rig. My friend, The profezzor is still looking 931 boats later...

Best big water boat hands down is the Remix. You can not beat that boat, and can run class two to class V+. I feel that it is the best boat around for big water. I do have a Jefe Grande for sale call me if you want it 801-678-9130. Sorry, but my Remix is not for sale. I love her to much.

remix is the boat you want- Ive bought two of them and will always stand by them. the outfitting is the best in the market- now the back bands pop up for easier storage. Ive paddled three seasons in a remix- paddles the wenatchee to deep creek in it. one of mine is for sale but its spoken for.

Matt Taylor has a green Stomper 90 for sale....

I have a remix 69 and 79 in awesome shape and a jefe as well that I'd sell. The remix is what I'd suggest you get, its a solid boat.

Andy:
What's your Remix 79 going for?
Cheers,
Brady Larsen
8Oh1-5five7-72two3

Wow, quite the response! Thank you everyone!!! I really appreciate all the input.
So... after much ado, I have realized that my 64 gallon creeker is a tad small for big, challenging whitewater. So, if you have a CREEKER (or a Remix) for sale, please holler at me, as... I am still looking... 4 THREE FIVE 232 FIVE THREE EIGHT 3.

Jeff and FSM, thank you for those offers, unfortunately, (at 145 lbs) I am fairly small, so those boats might be a wee-bit out if my league. But, again, thank you everyone... I do appreciate it.

ANDY, I am very interested in both your remixes and hefe!!! I'll be in Logan Monday. If you're back, please holler, I'll even come up mid week if I have to, thanks ... 4 THREE FIVE 232 FIVE THREE EIGHT 3.

For those curious... here's SOME OF the boats presently stirring my curiosity...


1 - Liquid Logic -Stomper 80, not that I could afford it.
2 - Pyrana - Burn (M)
3 - Liquid Logic - Hefe (M)
4 - Liquid Logic - Remix 79
5 - Dagger - Mamba Creeker 8.5
6 - Pyrana - H:3 245 or 255
7 - Dagger - Nomad 8.5
8 - BlissStick - Mac 1
9 - BlissStick - Tuna
10- BlissStick - Mystic (larger than my - Mini Mystic)
11 - Pyrana - Shiva (M)
12 - Pyrana - Karnali (M)

Sigh... Haaah

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE & SYOTR

Dave, you should sell that POS Bliss Stick and buy a Pyranha H3 245. If you watch Wildwater you'll see a record high NF Payette Jake's run in the H3.

Stomper or Remix man it going to be your boat. Yeah the record high Jakes run was in an H3 245, but that does not mean that was the best boat. If he would have done it in a Dancer would you say the same thing. Don't buy a boat based on what you saw in a video. He could have been boating something else, but it had a crack or something so he used what he had. Point is you never know. Anyone who paddles a Remix in big water knows how great they are. The people who don't well say that are junk. The Pyranha boats are hard boats to paddle for some, and Jackson makes some of the worst creeker, and river runners on the market. No one really uses the Diesel so I would scratch that one. My love for the Remix is pretty strong. I used a friends for as long as I could often leaving my boat in the truck. I have hand paddles big water with so much ease, and I don't feel I can get that from any other boat. Here is a video of my remix in action on Black Canyon of the Bear. This is a run that you may want to run so I want you to see the power of this boat.
https://vimeo.com/41258587

K. So after more research... I took the Diesel off the list, and put the H:3 on. I was iffy on the Diesel anyway. The H:3 design looks fairly decent, and because it's older, it's probably cheaper!

Thanks again FSM and Duckins

H3 is a great boat, as is the Diesel.

I'm sure the Remix is great too. If you watch FSM's video you'll see how great it is... wait a minute... FSM said not to base any decisions on what you see in a video... maybe he is confused. I think Tristen Mclaren probably could have found a Remix to run Jake's at 15k if he wanted to.

Bottom line is the Diesel, H3, and Remix are great big water boats. You will be able to find a H3 much cheaper if that matters.

It is entirely preference, for planing vs displacement hulls. I really like my Nomad 8.5; its very predictable, not catchy, turns well and easy rolling. You are welcome to try it. But since you are after Medium in most models, I think you would be after the Nomad 8.1, and Remix 69,etc (you have 79 on your list).
Since I know you like to surf every wave there is, you should try some planing hull boats.
I have had fun just buying whatever is a good deal; a "good deal" being a price you can resell it for. Then you can paddle it for awhile and see how you like it; then resell it for about the same price. That is like a free long term demo. Since its such a low water year, I bet there will be some more boats for sale soon.

This is funny. Dave, what you do mean by "big challenging whitewater"? And what's up with the video of the back canyon of the bear? This is just plain silly. People run the bear in playboats. I'm heavier than you, Dave, and ran the lower 5 at 2000 cfs the first time in a java, which is smaller than your mini mystic.

My advice is to keep your boat and spend the money in trips instead. You should be boating more than 4 hours per day every weekend of every week until October.

I agree with spaghetti monster gas is expensive and there is not much water too close. Mountain buzz has some boats and people are unloading their bigger boats in Denver if you really need one. Gore canyon is a good trip to get both done. Just saying

As FSM said, don't buy based on a video. Maybe this guy usually paddles something else, like a remix, but the day this video was filmed he could only find a mini mystic... so he decided to run huka falls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXTSpGotcrA

Damn Peru that is one sick ass video. Not sure I would want to roll the dice on that.

EDIT: I misunderstood Christain's posts. My bad. Should have known better... especially with Christain. What a guy Christain... you rock man!